Talk:Half Magi

Heyho from Paris!

This page looks interesting. Could you please explain the theory further? Thank you!

--Richeron

Yes explain please!

--Entriia

I'd like an explanation as well, please, as I've already pointed out that Elizabetha can't be any form of Light Magi, considering that the Light isn't magic, and the word Magi is the plural form of Mage - aka: one mage, two magi.

Very confusing.

--Elizabetha 09:13, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Okay okay! ill explain the theory a little more..and thank you liz for your tip.

--Hymm

Seeing how Elizabetha has never conjured anything remotely close to the arcane, it is implausible that she is suspected of such. After all, she doesn't even touch the Arts of the Arcane, content with using the power of the Holy Light.

--Elizabetha 20:17, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Blood elves can tap and nick Light from the Naaru, so I think it's a bit strong to say the Light and Shadow aren't magical. That said, semantically: a generation ago human Kingdoms were still calling Light magic "God", and it's users are still called "priests/paladins". Mages don't enter into it, not even with those pesky blood elves.

Also, since arcane, light and shadow magic are all strictly learned abilities (the trainers make a big deal about teaching that stuff IC, when player characters are "ready" for it), mages are a profession, not a species. "Half magi" sounds rather like "half teacher", "half postman" and "half librarian".

-A

While it is true that the Blood Elves can tap into the power of the captured Naaru, I personally view it as a source of power rather than actual magic, seeing how magic as such can't heal a person, the odd Healthstones notwithstanding - they are a source of confusion to me, seeing how shadow is made to destroy; then again there is a variant to shadow-imbued mobs who use some sort of shadow spell to up their health.

The mana bar is in my opinion a game mechanic to limit the use of the Light power, as per the stories where severe wounds require a lot of power being channeled through the healer into the patient, thus exhausting both. Since the power of the Light is mani-folded through greater faith (as possibly through greater use of its power over a longer time, thus turning the user into a greater vessel of its energies, it stands apart from the arcane, which as such requires a lot of study and various other items to enhance one's gift to manipulate the arcane that infests all of Azeroth - I reckon they're inspired by the Winds of Magic in Warhammer Fantasy. I think Richeron mentioned something about Ley Lines regarding the arcane?

In any case, the arcane is channeled through the uttering of spells and gestures of hand, while the Light is summoned through faith and prayer. The power itself may be magic, I suppose, but as I see it, isn't viewed in that way. Same goes for shamanism, where the shaman asks and hopes the spirits will grant his/her request.

--Elizabetha 09:37, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Getting a bit far afield here, might be a point to take up on the server forum?

Mostly what you're citing seems to be the RL quick-definition of religion vs. magic -- aka, religion is asking (and unpredictable/emotional), magic is ordering (and predictable/intellectual). Shamanism shouldn't be dragged into it, IMO, as it has elements of both (a religious system incorporating magical spells as an equal and inseparable part).

Functionally, and assuming a fictional world where both magic and miracles can be produced on demand, both are learned means for manipulating external forces. The user will feel differently about them, and the energies may be applicable for different purposes (not unlike physics -- thermal, kinetic and electrical energy are all good for different things, and applied and transferred differently), but the basic mechanical functionality is the same.

-A

Yes, I do confess that my opinion is based on RL. And I agree that it comes to the user him/herself to decide for themselves whether their power is magic or not. Semantics it is indeed, as some will choose to call everything magic and some will divide into magic and divine.

As for the reason why I drew in shamans is due to the conversation I've read between Thrall and Grom Hellscream:

"THRALL: Isn't magic magic?

''GROM: Yes and no. Sometimes the effect is the same. For instance, if a shaman was to summon lightning to strike his foes, they would be burned to death. If a warlock was to summon hell's flames against an enemy, they would be burned to death.''

THRALL: So magic is magic.

''GROM: But lightning is a natural phenomenon. You call it by requesting it. With hell's fire, you make a bargain. It costs a little of yourself.''

''THRALL: But you said that the shamans were disappearing. Doesn't that mean that the warlock's way was better?''

''GROM: The warlock's way was quicker, more effective, or so it seemed. But there comes a time when a price must be paid, and sometimes, it is dear indeed."''

I do realise that it seems to contradict my opinion, which I'd like to point out in order to correct myself, based on how I've understood your argumentation on your own views.

My initial purpose was to draw a paralel between imploring a distant power/deity/spirit(s) for the blessing of casting a certain spell. As seen in the following quote:

"The clerics and priests who practice it invoke the energies of The Holy Light, the magical entity thought to embody the power of the human spirit."

And indeed do most of the sources call the Light "Light magic", which I generally assumed was used to avert misunderstandings and/or just put it all in one box as something "not-of-this-world-but-still-part-of-it" aka magic.

Regardless, yes, both are learned means indeed, requiring the tutelage of well-versed practitioners.

As for making this a forum post, I must admit that I'm rather iffy about making one as it would turn into a huge thread that would require constant reading, whereas here, it is nicely small.

In any case, I do feel I stand corrected, and I realise that as the Light powers are not per se of one's own making, it is a power scource manipulated in a way that has very close similarities to other schools of magic.

--Elizabetha 12:13, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Scources used:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Shaman_lore

http://www.wowwiki.com/Magic

Well since you arnt arcane or dark liz you and Prayher dont really have a catagory unless i can think of one. and is "A" Lash? :P Still. some of this stuff is off the map so im trying my best here. Still feel free to continue with this. and notifiy me of any corrections i must make XD

--Hymm

Elizabetha: Paladin of the Light.

Prayer: Priestess of the Light.

Both are therefore Light wielders aka Light magic users. ;)

--Elizabetha 14:20, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

The Thrall/Grom example is exactly what I meant. :) One asks, one is orders, but both are still essentially using a tool to manipulate energy that already exists -- be that lightning or hellfire. Mages don't "make" arcame energy any more than priests "make" miracles, they just know how to poke somethign to make stuff happen.

Looking at it that way, and the game's accepted nomenclature aside, "magic" seems the more accurate academic description for Light/Shadow based powers. While the method is prayer (for priests and pallies) or sacrifice (for warlocks) and not spellcasting (as it is for mages), at the end of the day it's still an entirely reliable and predictable action that produces an entirely reliable and predictable result, and can be used in finite ways as defined by the user's strength.

I suspect this is for two reasons: First, because it's easier to model as magic, and second, because Blizzard is a US-based company, and the American Taliban are rabid about anything that looks like blasphemy. Blizz essentially had to take God out of the game and fill the space with philosophy, or risk attacks from the entire religious right. Or so my cynical brain figures it, anyway. :P

-A

While the method is prayer (for priests and pallies) or sacrifice (for warlocks) and not spellcasting (as it is for mages), at the end of the day it's still an entirely reliable and predictable action that produces an entirely reliable and predictable result, and can be used in finite ways as defined by the user's strength.

Er...yeah. That makes it even more clear to me. *scratches head* Starting to wonder how I did miss that. xD

And indeed did they remove the previous religion with a god and replaced it with a philosophy - much to my irritation as it left many things in thin air. The speculation that the Light was once worshipped as a deity, and Archbishop Alonsus Faol speaking of a paradise, as well as the many other greetings and blessings in the name of the Light, does help with that.

By the same was my initial opinion that the Light wasn't magic based on this, reflecting my RL opinion.

Though, as aforesaid, has been clarified to be not in accordance with the Lore per se. Also since I did forget that this is dealing with a fictional world, as you pointed out. *nodnod*

And I do suspect you are correct in your suspicion. *grins*

--Elizabetha 18:34, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Would Ent come under Dark Magi? Being a Shadowmancer. (Shadowmancer not Shadoweaver, note :P)

--Entriia

Yes Ent would because...Isnt she back from the dead in a very magical or something sort of way? :P

Hymm