Talk:Wladhimyr

It just struck me that one of Wlad's quotes "Emotions, love and friendship are terms for weakness" actually contradicts the teachings of the Holy Light.

On purpose?

--Elizabetha 13:13, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Erm...about the battle prayer. Wlad mentions Gods...which gods? oO

--Angst 18:47, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

The battle prayer is from Manowar -- Warrior's Prayer. The bit where grandfather tells a story about the four warriors, the Metal Kings who devastate the armies of the world and made them all swear allegiance to them.

Also, "contradiction" of the Light's teachings is a bit strong. The Light has a lot to say about compassion, but on emotion it's controversial. My primary reference has been The Three Virtues, which would seem to be more in line with the concepts of Zen or Buddhism than Christianity. In those, emotionality really -is- a weakness, as it leads an individual to experience subjectively (and in a limited, selfish way) rather than objectively (as an equal and selfless part of the universe). Hence compassion is the last virtue to be taught, so that the initiates can learn to tell compassion from plain old emotion, and won't act on selfish (emotional) grounds.

It comes down to how it's played, really.

-A

I had based my opinion on the following quote that explains somewhat in detail how the philosophy's basic principals function:

"The Holy Light teaches that there is a connection between the self and the universe. This connection manifests as what we feel through both senses and emotions. When a person is moved, through seeing something breathtaking or feeling love for another, that emotion connects him to the universe. Experiencing the emotion ensures that he exists, as something within him felt the emotions or processed the sensual awareness. Because he exists, so must the universe that gave him that feeling. From there, he can act upon the universe, causing more changes to create feeling in others. Thus, the followers of Holy Light seek to make the world a better place by being true to their own emotions.

The next step in recognizing this connection between the self and the universe is developing the goodness within and without. If one wishes for happiness, one must work to better the universe to make others happy. Experiencing the glory and beauty of the world will in turn tap into the inner beauty and glory within one's soul. However, giving in to greed, despair, and unhappiness will only darken the universe. The Holy Light is the glory of the universe reflected upon the soul and mirrored back onto itself."

As quoted from http://www.wowwiki.com/Holy_Light

As I can see it, the emotions one develops in friendship and love seems to be something that a follower of the Light would want to strive to promote, not despise. Hence my rather strong wording of contradicting. I hope it wasn't misplaced. However much the philosophy might bear resemblances to other real religions and/or faiths, I've mostly clinged to how I understood this particular text.

--Elizabetha 11:04, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I tend to put more stock by the Virtues bit, simply because it seems better thought out, but that's a personal preference. Mostly I was just pointing out that the sources conflict, but only on one prioritizing feeling and the other prioritizing understanding. The conflict isn't necessarily as big as it seems on paper, but I've never played with Wlad so I couldn't say.

Lore-conflict is pretty common with WoW, with all the various RPG source books no-one's ever consistency-checked. It's not really a problem IC as long as one accepts that theology tends to come in multiple interpretations (and occasionally varying degrees of "shutten zie uppen heretic!" ;) ).

-A

Yes, that is the sad truth about WoW, alright. *sigh*

And you made a point that I should've thought of earlier. My mistake. It is indeed pointed out in the article concerning the Church of Light that the present Church does have conflicting views regarding how the Holy Light should be understood, philosophically and so on, and Wlad's point does bear mark of that, whether he intended it or not. *nodnod*

As far as I recall from my conversations with Wlad, however short they have been, he did point out that his characters does not really view the Church as true to the ideals of the Holy Light, as his character sees it. Something that seems only to be evident by that particular quote that he's represented here.

I'm finding myself with knowledge. That can only be good. ^_^

--Elizabetha 22:38, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Superb work with the "Dwassacre" picture. We really must get around to having Nardreg and Yakatarr meet with one another!

--Hrisskar 06:47, July 14, 2010 (UTC)